As article I posted above says : Abuse is maltreatment. It is disrespectful, cruel, and the antithesis of love.
..There is no excuse for abuse. There is no logical reason for abuse. There is no justification for abuse - period.


So often it is said here on the board - that no matter the fact that a spouse is ill - there is still no excuse for them to abuse us.

In my mind it surfaces in many stories which are told here in posts, that we can often spout one rule for others, but then in turn dont apply to ourselves.
In my mind, no matter what acts of hurt, betrayal, or abuse have been dished out to us, it doesnt give us license to be abusive in response to such actions. So many times it is apparent that self righteous justification reigns in our thinking and in the explanation, even the excusing of our own behavior.

Remember we keep speaking of our spouses, or even to them and spouting off There is no justification for abuse - PERIOD! . and yet our own responses are so often NOT prefaced with reflection, compassion, integrity, or consideration. The mantra first do no harm does not seem to be in evidence much of the time.

.so many times fallout persons share their actions here .. Example : he/she did abc, so he/she no longer deseerves or has the right to xyz, so I did this or that. Whatever he or she did to us, doesnt give us the right to violate their rights as human beings - we are not justified in crossing others boundaries because they hurt us first - there is no excuse for us to be abusive.

A fallout person will relate in their post as to what they did to their depressed partner in response to something they did first .
There have been physical abusive actions like knocking an object out of a spouses hands - to verbal and emotional abusive actions revealed and related to us as a community and the responses given to them are so often that of a consoling and sympathetic in nature with the fallout person who is in reality being abusive..there is no recognition that the victim of abusive actions also needs compassion and empathy .

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What most people want is not truth, but validation. They want reinforcements for their thinking, right or wrong. They seek out the people and the information that support the conclusions they've already reached, factual or otherwise. The only things they want to hear are things that make them feel good, that give them comfort about who or where they are, right now.

Think about how many times you've heard people narrate an incident in their lives without seeming to notice any of their own accountability for what happened. You hear them blame the other people involved, often in excruciating detail, and charge right past what is obvious to everyone listening-namely, their own contribution to the incident.
~

Yes, there are situations and times we can all be pushed beyond reasonable human bounds. Whilst at times we can all understandably snap and in the cold light of day we regret our reactions and actions.. and truly, beating ourselves is not going to help resolve the issue or change what happened .. We can however learn from our mistakes - we can recognize abuse as abuse and work at finding other ways to cope and respond.

As a community whilst we can understand and empathize how sometimes others too can snap.what message are we giving out when we ignore abuse - even worse, what are we saying when we are openly informed and shown continuing patterns of abuse and we offer only symapthy to the person who is acting abusively? .. Where it the integrity? Where is the help in patting a fallout person on the head and saying there there there! when they are so openly, obviously and so persistently abusive ?

Just because person posts on here that they are in fallout having a spouse with depression or other mental health condition, doesnt mean they are without responsibility to act in appropriate ways.

There are two sides to EVERY story. As a community we only have the words written on the page by the person in fallout. they may or may not be an accurate portrayal of the situation. Even if the words are a realistic assessment and recounting of the situation - it seems to me in many replies, group mentality kicks in, US vs. THEM attitude and thinking occurs, and group bias and prejudice come into play without any pause for thought or consideration for the second side of the story .

All abuse is abhorrent and unjustifiable.
There is no justification for abuse - PERIOD!

Remember The intimate abuser wears many a mask of competence to in the world but at home, behind close doors, the real face emerges

Very often Fallout people ARE people who are wounded souls, and in a great deal of pain and who arent coping with, admitting, facing, or trying to resolve that pain. It is not an impossibility for them to be portraying themselves dishonestly on the board - they are as capable as the next person of putting on a mask of healthiness, or a front of propriety and right mindedness. They claim to be innocent wronged victims guilty of nothing, refusing to even consider their own behavior is anything but right and justified.

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Sometimes people hide behind a "mask'' and let people see them in an acceptable way when in reality they are actually feeling or acting in an ``unacceptable'' way. Some times they will attempt to make other people feel sorry for them, even though it would be better for them to accept their personal responsibility for their own actions.

People can do horrible things and still consider themselves good people. This is especially true for people who tend to blame others. Their horrible actions weren't because of their choices, according to them, those decisions were made because the other person made them do it. Or because they had no other choice. Or countless other self-justifications, excuses, rationalizations and self-esteem saving maneuvers.


It is common for fallout people to wrongly believe that to verbally berate someone, call them names, manipulate them emotionally, emotionally exploit and use them, threaten them is justified because they attribute their feelings as having been caused by their spouse who has depression.

Exerting any kind of control over anyone else in any abusive way is a dominating act of intimidation designed by that person to level the playing field.

Using words to exert control, using emotional abuse, raging, yelling, threatening are all abusive actions. When these actions are used persistently - it is abuse - any person using these tactics consistently with their spouse or colleagues is being an abuser.

Blaming, shaming, manipulation, guilt tripping our partners our friends, colleagues or family - plus:
*Unsolicited helping/rescuing doing things for others when they do not request it, want it, or need it; helping others so they become indebted, obligated, and owe you. The after all I have done for you, and now you owe me, After all the love I gave you, how can you be so cruel?, after all I have done for you and now you treat me like this statements
*Guilt shaming, scolding, blaming others, attempting to make others responsible, trying to collect for past favors. The goal is to be in the it is all your fault, or after all I have done for you and now you treat me like this position
*"If you really loved me..." "After all I've done for you..." "How can you be so selfish..." Do any of the above sound familiar? They're all examples of emotional blackmail, a powerful form of manipulation.


None of the above is about love. The aim/effect of these actions on the part of the person using them is to have his or her spouse feel worse, feel less than, feel to blame for how their partner feels, demand that his or her needs be met, that he or she be seen as right without question, that what he or she says is what goes.

There is constant talk of boundaries within our community - and alas persistent misunderstanding of what boundaries are.

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PERSONAL Boundaries (or limits) are statements about our values and where we stand on issues.
True boundaries are not threats or about getting the other person to do what we want.
True boundaries are not compromised by anothers response.


Abuse is not the way that adults set limits or boundaries or have the right to take care of themselves or their own interests. Abuse isnt a legitimate or acceptable way to solve problems or conduct relationships.

This goes whether it be in our personal lives with a loved one - or here in cyberspace.

On personal levels we would be wise to remember: a manipulator is always invested in the outcome of a situation.
When we make a personal boundary we let go of the outcomeif we are still invested in the outcome, there is a chance we have inadvertently got our wires crossed somewhere in the process, and we are being manipulative of others, and have in effect not actually set a personal boundary.

Saying to a spouse with depression if you keep treating me this way, I am going to leave you isnt an example of setting a personal boundary, it is literally making a threat.

I cannot live a healthy life living with someone who refuses to recognize, manage, or accept treatment for their illness is a personal boundary.
Verbalizing this to another person is not a threat.

Informing someone of the consequences is optional - if that option is chosen or requested - it still doesnt need to be in the form of a threat. if I cannot live a healthy life, I will have to consider ways to change my life situation in order to create a more healthy environment for myself No where in such a statement is there an accusatory you statement, no threat, just information which clearly leaves choices for others.

On a community level: Compassion, empathy, and sympathy for our fellow compatriots in fallout is appropriate and acceptable. But I believe this can be tempered with some common sense and awareness. Unfortunately it is a common mistake for some people to assume, and literally take someone elses empathy and understanding as total agreement and approval of ctions and words, despite the fact they ar abusive.

They are often the same people who are tending to seek opinions and information that support the conclusions they've already reached, factual or otherwise. The only things they want to hear are things that make them feel good, that give them comfort about who or where they are, right now.

I am not criticizing compassionate or sympathetic posts, I am not saying posts should not contain huge dollops of empathy and convey understanding and support to a poster .I am asking that other things are considered as well, and are also included rather than omitted
.one thing would be equal amounts of compassion and empathy for their partner who has depression or mood disorder.

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Loyalty to that which does not work, or worse, to a person who is toxic, exploitive, or destructive, is a form of insanity.
Everyone has the right to choose their options - to read a post and reply, or not.
It is everyones option to ignore or not consider a fellow posters unhealthy behavior on or off the board - but in just in my opinion, not pointing out unhealthy behaviors simultaneously when offering compassion is akin to lying by omission - it can create a false impression. The omission can be taken and twisted - it might seen as an agreement that an abusive action was justified or even worse it can be construed as condoning.

My intent is not to criticize or tell people what they should or shouldnt do anytime should appears in thinking or talk - it is a red flag.either in our personal lives or our public lives in cyberspace.
What I am asking is just for some awareness and consideration of possibilities.

Hypothetically - should a scenario occur where a fallout poster comes along say
firstly they admit they want to shame, guilt and control their depressed or mood disordered partner, secondly they continue to show controlling behavior like dictating who can post on their threads, or demanding only certain types of replies should be made on the their thread, say they also participate in chat where they continually dominate the conversation, their posts meanwhile continue to express obvious signs of manipulation, disfunction and dishonesty, say they also get huffy & obnoxious in chat when they arent getting the answers or the attention they want, say then they start to side chat people in the chat room again being obnoxious and basically berating them for merely disagreeing with an opinion shared in open chat, say this same poster also progresses to forget what things they have stated previously - AKA their story keeps changing, information they give becomes contradictory in fashion, or even obvious lying, say then they start to ez- box community members with threats

What would be the appropriate action?
Would it be: to comply with their demands, walk on eggshells around them, continue to feel sorry for them, and offer persistent sympathy to their plight of a being self proclaimed victim, while simultaneously bowing down to their threats?

Hypothetically - if this were to happen at any time, when the logical challenging information and opinions offered only seems to escalate unhealthy interactions, as it does when feeding the trolls for example, and it is only adding fuel to the fire of conflict.... I believe the only appropriate option left would be to use the advice about dealing with manipulators in general : Focus on changing yourself, not the manipulator. Personally for me, my choice would be to discontinue wasting my time, knowledge, and sympathy.